Excellent Exits - Learning from Leavers
- John Clapham
- Aug 14, 2024
- 7 min read
The weeks up to someone leaving an organisation, especially well liked, key people, can be tricky emotional times all round. Exit interviews are often awkward and rushed. That's unfortunate because these conversations offer crucial sources of organisational learning and an opportunity to part ways on a better note.
Not everyone is bold enough to provide their feedback through interpretive dance. It’s amazing how many forward thinking companies wave people off with a few platitudes and perfunctory box ticking exercises. This deprives the organisation of useful improvement points and can leave the person feeling unheard and wondering whether it was worth it. This kind of impersonal processing is unlikely to help with reputation or encourage anyone to recommend the place to a friend.
If only there was some way for the organisation to gain learning and to support current people, to help the person gain a sense of closure. It doesn’t have to be the last exit for the lost, what if we look differently at these closing conversations? What if we choose to be more dialogic than diagnostic? What if we used a more generative, coaching approach?
A Leaving Legacy
The first thing to recognise is that the person is leaving, for sure. It’s highly unlikely you’ll turn them round at this point. There is little value in using the interview to persuade, win back points, or comment on past wrongs. The leaver has unique personal reasons for their departure, a diagnostic approach may help understand more about the individual, but it won’t necessarily help the current team.
We can however flip the conversation, and view it as an opportunity to talk with someone who is an expert in the system of work and team life. Someone who can talk more candidly now they are not embroiled in politics and protecting their prospects. This is similar to the unique and fleeting perspective brought by a new starter.
It should be acknowledged that some leavers will be reluctant to engage in this style of conversation, although I’ve seldom had that experience, even with people being made redundant or leaving for performance reasons. If they've been with the organisation a while, chances are they still care about their colleagues and their future. This is partly an opportunity to make a difference to them, a little leaving legacy.
In this article we'll explore: Learning from leaver motivations
Legacy - Improvements for the current team
Photo by cottonbro studio
Towards or Away - Learning from motivations.
Interviews often kick off with a “why are you leaving?” style question. These are useful, although answers tend towards why someone choose their next opportunity and it’s relative merits. It becomes more about what they are doing next, and explaining that decision, than why they decided to leave the company.
If we look earlier in someones leaving timeline, considering when was the earliest opportunity to notice and act, we get more insight, especially if we go back to the things which prompted them to start looking, or continue a conversation when approached.
A useful exploratory question is “When did you decide to look elsewhere?”, the backdrop for their decision is also revealing. Was there discontent or change at the time? Were they lost in transformation? This also helps to identify unique situations which may, or may not, occur again.
Another dimension is whether the motivation is towards (they wanted something different and had a sense of direction) or away (they wanted to not be in their current situation).
Toward motivation shows ambition, it’s useful to understand what the person was seeking, again in terms of the role they’ve accepted, and more generally, and whether the organisation could, or should offer it. It may be that those aspects are already available or possible, and the organisation just isn’t making it clear. Conversely it may be that they’ve reached a constraint in the organisation, and little can be done to manufacture a suitable opportunity.
Away motivation is often the spark for leaving, another bad day, lack of, or excessive change.
Away from motivation is the area that an organisation can influence the most because it typically relates to the environment, or system, they create for their people.
Both towards and away motivations for leaving provide the opportunity for learning, it’s often a blend, enquiry about the ratio of the two can be revealing.
One of the worst things to hear is the equivalent of someone having a really bad day (an away motivation) and being contacted that very evening by an eager recruitment agent with a tempting offer. Its the perfect storm of towards and away motivations.
In terms of the interview flow, this is predominantly a listening phase for the facilitator, it offers insight and gives the interviewee a chance to share.
Leaving on a better note
Endings, and especially the nature of an ending, can have broad and long lasting effects, mixing both positive and negative, impact and strength of which can be felt much later. This is especially likely if there is a feeling of things unsaid, being unheard or unfinished business. Even where someone has chosen to leave there may still be some uncertainty or reticence.
While some of the interview is for the benefit of the team and organisation, the decent thing to do is create a space where the leaver can be heard and start towards closure. If that bar is too high, at least make sure they don’t feel ignored or that the interviewer wasn’t interested in their view. This is often the way with template interviews and automated exit interviews. They leave a negative feeling, which has a way of getting back to other employees, especially when leaving drinks are involved, making them wonder how valued they are and if this is how they too will be treated.
During this stage, following the lead of systemic coaching constellations, we look for questions which invite noticing of positive aspects, and for anything the person would like to leave with us.
“If you leave with respect and acknowledgement for what you’ve gained, balancing the exchange, then you can be free and grow” (Whittington 2016)As a side note, it may be worth giving some attention to the remaining team as it's system settles, to acknowledge the leaving, and subsequently help new people find a sense of place.
While this isn’t a contracted coaching session we can offer the opportunity to highlight achievements and begin the ending.
We might ask:
What are you most proud of?
What will you take with you to your next role?
If the relationship is right, we may choose some exploratory questions such as:
What shouldn’t go unsaid?
What would you like to say to [significant person in their work life]
A useful legacy - improvements for the current team
Rather than focusing on past feelings, or the attraction of the new opportunity, we might initiate a more fruitful discussion about what would benefit the current team.
As mentioned earlier, leavers generally still care about the future of (at least some) of their colleagues, this is a chance to set them up and make things better. For the facilitator, this section of the conversation may be fully listening or more towards co-creating. The leavers perspective on what would make a difference may be surprising - for instance not paying attention to bonuses and being more influenced by personal development opportunities and training budget.
The key is to keep it work focused, it's not about the leaver or their history, it's about what could be done differently, especially at a practical team level. Another advantage of this topic is that sometimes, when people learn a colleague is leaving, they become more open about their own gripes, meaning the leaver may bring bonus opinions.
The kind prompts to consider are:
What advice would you give to the next person in your role?
What advice would you give the team as a whole?
What else does the team need to be successful?
What’s going well?
If there’s a transformation running (isn’t there always?) I would ask if it had an influence on their decision, and what they think about the direction of travel.
In Practice
As usual who does the interview, and their stance is a significant contributor to success. We’re looking for someone who can be trusted to deal with the situation and information sensitively. It’s important to make the interviewer's role clear, and discuss how any notes are used, what is and isn’t shared, and if there is anonymisation. Obviously it will be someone the leaver can have a constructive conversation with, and ideally someone who understands the language of the work - this isn’t a time to be asking what technical terms mean.
In addition to Who, is their stance. A coaching style, in the sense of listening, building and asking questions to generate insights, discover and learn will get the most of the meeting. What we certainly don’t want is a defensive or judgemental stance or gas lighting. The person’s experiences are theirs and real.
I also tend to explain the purpose of the conversation, and how it relates to other exit interviews, such as the HR interview. In particular it is more closely related to their role and work, and aims to benefit from the person’s experience to make a better workplace.
This format gets good results with temporary hires and consultants too, although expected to leave, they have experience working closely with teams in the organisation's environment. Recent joiners also have less history, they may have weathered less storms, or missed the halcyon days, and this can influence their perception of the organisation. In particular, recent joiners can tell us something about the organisation's trajectory and how initiatives are affecting attraction and retention.
Concluding thoughts
Exit interviews offer a unique opportunity to uncover useful ideas and get feedback, enabling improvements to teams and the organisation, including ways of working, how change is handled and culture. They offer insight into the organisation’s trajectory, especially if people with desired skills and behaviours are departing.
To do this, we look at the exit interview as a method of finding future improvements, as an interview with an expert in their role, and the environment they work in. This takes the conversation away from a backwards looking, diagnostic focus towards a dialogic approach centred on what was valued and what could be improved in the future.
This generative style also demonstrates that the organisation is committed to its people and continuous improvement. While it may be ‘too late’ for the individual, it may not be for the rest of the team.
The conversation, if viewed as more than an interview, can also help a leaver to get closure, and depart on better terms, with acknowledged contribution and a chance to feel heard. This feels like a decent thing that any respectful organisation should do, and is in part a way of saying thanks. In addition to benefits for the leaver, in competitive recruitment spaces, an excellent exit can help with reputation, influencing how people speak of the organisation, it’s brand and whether they would return or recommend it to a friend.
References
Whittington, J. (2016). Systemic Coaching and Constellations (2nd ed.). Kogan Page.